Remember La Vanguardia's comments section and all the crazy leftie anti-American stuff that people kept posting there? Well, a few pro-Americans have shown up, and so have quite a few racists. Here's the discussion about an article saying that the US has warned several European countries that a major Al Qaeda attack may be in the works.
So if you want to know how Spaniards really think, this is a pretty good example; there are arguments coming from several different directions here. Some are sensible and some definitely are not. Note the folks who want to expel Arab immigrants and nuke Teheran--and note the guy who thinks I should be killed because I voted for Bush.
Pepi (Minneapolis): Uf! I hope Spain takes this seriously.
Pilar (San Francisco): At this point you can't believe anything at all.
Robaperas (Terrassa): And we do nothing but watch their latent Fifth Column install itself among us. I'm sick of these limousine leftists!
Luis1 (Barcelona): But wasn't the March 11 attack Aznar's fault because of "the great intervention in the Iraq war"? This is the most farcical government Spain has ever had in its history.
Fodel: Fear and manipulation have always gone hand in hand. As old as the history of humanity. FEAR is a form of politics that benefits a FEW. Belligerence, arrogance, looting, and expoliation, by a few who are very full of GREED. Let's not fool ourselves, the USA has that weapon of mass destruction called FEAR. Let's be free and hope John Waine (sic) doesn't attack us when he goes on stage.
Terror: We should be most frightened of governments and their state terrorism.
Josep (Barcelona): Yes, Luis1, our armed presence in Iraq made us the target of Islamist groups. If not, then why March 11? The problem is that international terror has also globalized.
Asimov (Barcelona): Those silly Yankees, always imagining things. What were September 11, March 11, and July 7 but optical illusions?
Weasle: Fear and manipulation? John Wayne? You watch too much TV. Come on, man.
A. Vila: Thanks to the USA for warning us. But don't worry, in Spain / Europe we live with chronic blindness. Here instead of prevention, we release fundamentalist Islamic fanatics every day. Just in case, USA, don't lose sight of us and watch out for us, because our politicians will continue being indifferent.
Luis1 (Barcelona): Josep, then why didn't this government's "partners": the PSC, ERC, IU, etc., hold demonstrations over the presence of Spanish troops in Afghanistan? They gladly called demonstrations when the PP was in power. Do you know why? Because they're demagogues and frauds.
Marco (Barcelona): Well, then, let's just stay home until the "threat" passes.
Tony (Barcelona): Fear, wherever it comes from, is always what limits our freedom, the fear we carry within us, each being, each individual, and some know very well how to use it and manage it meticulously, so that it reaches us little by little, each one of us, this is a true war against freedom, it is an invisible but effective war, and since man has existed, it has always been precticed, by a few to govern many.
Birrero (Barcelona): In the end those who say that to put an end to this kind of attacks, the only option is to send every living creature with two legs who looks like an Arab back to his country, are going to be right.
Anonymous: Luis1, isn't that because Iraq was a war that wasn't even supported by the UN? If in Afghanistan, instead of doing humanitarian work, we were mixed up in an ILLEGAL war, yes, illegal like the one in Iraq, a genocide with the unique objective of looting petroleum, I think that everyone would demonstrate too.
Alexandre: Once upon a time there was a country called the Kingdom of Spain, governed by a bunch of nostalgics for May 1968 who practice naivete in international relations. Those politicians tell us that fundamentalist terrorism has its origins in the Iraq war, but it turned out that once we left the Euphrates, now what they're demanding is the recovery of Andalusia. THAT'S ENOUGH BLINDNESS! WE'RE PLAYING WITH DEMOCRACY AND HUMAN RIGHTS HERE.
GBA: Another attack like September 11 or March 11 would completely justify the atomic bombing of the countries that support Islamist terrorism. God Bless America (original English).
Hermes: If we hadn't gone to Iraq the excuse would have been that we're in Afghanistan, or that Al-Andalus belongs to them, or that we were an imperialist country. They always look for a reason to attack us, while we continue blaming one another, even justifying the terrorists' reasons for attacking.
Pace: Such a threat is credible, and Bush's political desire is that an attack happens in Europe. The West kicked over the wasps' nest by stealing petroleum from Islamist countries. This mixed with religion produced a dangerous cocktail. What is Europe doing stuck in Afghanistan? Everything is cause and effect.
Josep* (Girona): The Muslims back to their country. They're cultures that are too different to live together. They make their women wear chilabas and walk three steps behind, and we have them leading our country. Screw the Muslims. It's politically incorrect, but it is the solution. Important fact: 85% of arrests are of immigrants, and 80% are recidivists. That can't continue.
MV: In Afghanistan, if the UN wasn't there the Talibans would be killing and beating women for walking the street alone, even wearing burkas to their ankles when it's 40º in trhe shade. Enough justifying terrorism! But of course, since it's super cool to be a defender of those who don't want to integrate...If they want to come to Europe, there are norms and a way of life. Let them adapt, not us to them, and what's worse, they laugh in our face and attack us!
Francesc: Many of them have European passports thanks to our governments. We're paying for our politicians' errors.
Franchu (Las Palmas): If we once expelled the Muslims from our country it was for a reason. I think the solution is this, enough of them moving as they wish in European territory, bring back frontiers and customs controls. This is snowballing out of our hands, and it would justify the use of nuclear weapons against the countries that support terrorism: Iran, Syria, and Sudan.
VivaBush (Barcelona): Hey, GBA, I'm impressed that there are people as sensible as you, me, and the rest of us with the same ideas. I thought that in this country of hippies there was nobody with a brain. Now, more than ever, God Bless America, its soldiers, and its president.
Carmi: That's the way, kill them all, and that way we'll put an end to the problem. That's sick!!!!!
Mau: Thank you Bush, keep going with the Iraq wasps' nest. The bad thing is that all of us pay for your mistakes.
MonsieurTon: If things were as clear as some of you paint them (get out "moros," they want to recover Al Andalus, they hit women...) we would be in a rose-colored situation. Islam has many more reasons to fear and hate us than we have to hate them. 19 crazies could not have done September 11 no matter how much they wanted. The US has imposed reactionary dictators and regimes all over the world, and all its friends have nuclear weapons. Please realize that most of what they sell us as "information" is mere propaganda, impossible to prove, no matter how professional the journalist who propagates it is.
MonsieurTon: Iran knows that if it attacks Israel or the USA in any way, their country will be reduced to ashes. Why do you assume they are so silly and blind? The threat is not a little attack like September 11 or March 11, it is the complete destruction of cities and infrastructures. Isn't it that they are looking for excuses to keep colonizing the world in our interests?
Mau: America began by massacring the indigenous Indians and it hasn't stopped until our times. The bad thing is we pay for the consequences.
Pepe: I'm sure it's all a conspiracy of the USA (I don't know if it's Judeo-Masonic like they all used to be) in order to gain at the expense of others, and not as we do in Spain, where with "talante" and alliances, we lose so that others gain.
Mak: But are you all stupid or what? Stop blaming the governments, what does it matter how we got where we are. The question is that we are here. The problem is: They want to kill us. It doesn't matter if it's a majority or a minority. The question is they want to wipe us out. So enough fooling around and let's take action for once.
Mau: More of the same. I just read in El Pais at least 14 more dead in Baghdad after an American airstrike, according to a policeman the dead are civilians, naturally no comment from the USA.
Pepe: Monsieur Ton, we don't have to make up possible attacks. You are certainly one of those that justifies the unjustifiable, but while living in a Western and Christian country.
Carmi: Look out white man, they want to wipe us out. Maybe we thought there would be no reaction to the genocide and expoliation we have been committing for years? Come on, man, let's not have illusions.
Monsieur Ton: Unjustifiable, what bollocks, Pepe...if you and others "justify" what we do in response to three bombings, what must they be thinking when they see our countries occupying and wiping out their lands? Doesn't it seem easy to you to justify an Iraqi wanting to kill Bush, Blair, and anybody who votes for them?
Rufo: Islam literally means submission to Allah, and the Muslim countries have their own reduced version of human rights. If this is not proof that Islam is incompatible with our world, I don't know what is. Islam neither can nor wants to function with half-measures, and sharia law is not an option, it's a mandate from God. As more countries give in (just ask Turkey), it will be like going back to the Inquisition. The freedom we enjoy today is not guaranteed. We have to defend it and not give in AT ALL!
Monsieur Ton: Keep saying "they're bad and we're good," because if they do the same as we do then total collapse is assured (economic and ecological). Since I can abuse, I do, and when they can of course they will do the same. It is incredible how some of you live among your clouds as if this situation of hegemony were eternal through the grace of God. The harder they fall. You bunch of anesthesized people, stop watching TV.
Citizen Kane (Barcelona): The influence of the stupid war in Iraq on Islamic terror activity is minimal. They've been pulling off attacks for 30 years. The origin? The rage they feel that such a rich and proud culture is licking the floor of poverty and despotic regimes. Since they don't dare to blow up the God that has abandoned them, they are looking for human sacrifices.
MV: Monsieur Ton, let them respect us too. If they come to our house they should adapt. Besides, if they didn't mix religion with politics so much it would be better for them. And above all, more general culture and less studying only religion. It would be like that in Europe for us if we only studied the Bible, without cultural progress.
Rufo: By the way, those who believe indiscriminately killing innocents in trains and offices is a legitimate tactic, let me tell you something. Go live in Saudi Arabia, you don't fit in here.
Mek: If we want peace, we must prepare for war.
MV: They have their women reduced to mere OBJECTS for the use and pleasure of men, WITHOUT any rights at all. Here nobody makes them wear a burka and they can CHOOSE to study, work, go shopping, think, wear a bikini, and if they want to, they can work in porno, since they can CHOOSE. Long live women's rights!
Pepe: I support mutual respect, but me in my house, them in theirs, and God in everybody's. Monsieur Ton, since Western civilization (European and / or Christian) does not convince you, I wonder why you live in a country like the one you describe so well, rather than enjoying an Islamic republic.
Cub: We've reduced our women to mere sexual icons? That's the argument that Islamist fanatics use: Western women are whores. No, sir, Western women are free, and those that belong to the fanatics are slaves.
MV: I've always been worried about the subject of women's rights, and I've always followed the problems they have with the Talibans. Maybe because I have a mother, sisters, and daughters? Come on, less phony anticapitalism. And if you defend your anti-Western ideals so vehemently, try living in an Islamic republic and express yourself freely as you do in Europe. The day it affects you, you'll change your mind!
Betuli (London): We have to separate the wheat from the chaff. Our policies against Islamic extremism must be strong, while we integrate the great majority of peaceful Muslims into Western values. The carrot and the stick. Putting all Muslims in the same sack leads us to a dead end.
Cub: Of course, Betuli. We should remember that the first victims of religious fanatics are the citizens of their countries. But we should also remember that we have already escaped religious fanaticism, we have made great social advances in a fight that has lasted centuries, against our own fanatics. We should not cede a millimeter.